I grew up in church and loved it, but I haven’t been back in about 4 years. I’ve never stopped believing what I grew up believing though.
On random nights, it seems like maybe once a month, I put on some gospel DVDs and try to tap into the joy unspeakable and full of glory that I remember from church. I’m angry at church, though, and so sometimes I have a bad gospel night where it pulls up all the reasons I don’t go any more.
The biggest reason I stopped going is that churches were becoming more and more focused on gaining political power and less focused on loving people. The specific reason I stopped going is that I’m angry with my last pastor and until I can let that go, it’s going to be an ongoing issue in my life.
When I have this dark nights of the soul, I often cry out to the twitter community. I’m not expecting a solution, it’s more about yelling out a window, and I guess hoping someone will hear.
I have a great life with a great wife. We were talking about my inner struggle this morning and the metaphore I used was that I feel like my life is a helium balloon that represents all the good things. Inside the balloon is a rock and that represents my resentment against the church and my last pastor. It seems like a mission impossible task to get rid of the rock without poping the balloon, so I just live with the rock and deal with it emotionally from time to time.
I don’t have an answer, but it seems like anyone who happens to read my late night tweets and wonders, “what’s up with that guy?” should have some kind of explaination and context.
28 Comments
My wife and I also have those late night “what’s my inner turmoil” discussions. For me, I feel like the American church in general has gone more salesman-like than necessary. And we don’t know what we have because we “believe” the bare minimum, but if we really believed then we’d live differently, and the sales tactics wouldn’t be needed for all the real love and hope going out into the community, etc. That’s my context.
I’ve found one group of folks, similar angst, that I connect with once a month. Other than that, it’s on my blog a bit, mostly in my head and heavy in my heart.
We’ve gone through something similar. We quit going in about 2001. One of the things I noticed is that the church, as it’s practiced in most of the world today, has little to do with the teachings of Jesus, and a lot to do with maintaining the status quo. For instance the word we translate “to preach” comes from the Greek root for the word “dialog”. When was the last time you heard anything like dialog when a preacher is preaching?
I used to play drums for a church in Mesa and it was hard to ignored the politics of the church over the feeling that you get from the spirit. Needless to say, the church like any organization will have its flaws. Keep believing and you’ll find your way back. Good post, btw.
I feel you, Neal. I struggle with the same sort of issues … “bad” former pastor and all.
I’ve been able to find solace outside the traditional church with a great group of friends that I get together with on Tuesday nights to eat and play music, but I do sometimes miss the traditional church experience as much as I end up disliking it when trying it out again.
Hang in there … faith is tough and you’re are definitely not alone (it’s nice to know I’m not the only experiencing this, either).
johnny
I am a youth minister and I feel the same way. I was raised in church and now do it full time. There are churches out there that are loving and teach the word. Neal your anger for your pastor is normal. See your pastor is normal too. Your family helps me so I want to help you. You can overcome this and continue to help others.
Neal.. thank you for sharing so intimately.
An encouraging word for you brother:
“I’m convinced that God, who began this good work in you, will carry it through to completion on the day of Christ Jesus”. (Philippians 1:6)
In Him there is no darkness at all.
Praying.. and awaiting a good report.
Also I am sorry you’ve been wounded from within the church.
Neal, check out the podcast put out by Joel Osteen. I think he is a great mix of religion and motivation and he has cut out a lot of what you are unhappy and bothered by in current “old-school” churches.
Link to read about him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Osteen
Podcast: Joel Osteen Audio Podcast (or you can watch him on tv or online).
hope it helps!
That is a sad reality of many churches in this day and age. Try listening to some of the stuff from http://northstarpc.org/
They were a breath of fresh air to me when I visited down there.
Neal, I completely understand where you’re coming from. Our conversation from the night after our “live” show was very enlightening. My father is a miniser…and has been fired twice in his career due to “bad” pastors.
Just remember this…we’re all human. We all make mistakes…we’re all jerks…and we were born to defy all the Christian traits. It’s a struggle to be a Christian in this “dark” world. But it’s also not good to hang on to that anger, honey.
When you and Cali have an argument, don’t you desire her (or vice versa) to forgive you? That’s just what Christ wants of us…forgiveness. The people he’s called to do the job of “preaching” do dumb things…say dumb things…and even veer off to the far left…but again, we’re human.
Dad (and the rest of us) has had to learn to let it go. To release it and forgive those two pastors who wronged him. It’s very hard. You just learn that life is so much more…and God is bigger than all that crap.
I wish you could return to the church…a good one…to see that not everyone is bad.
Hang in there. Dave and I are always here for you guys…
Hugs,
Kat
I have always felt that (If there is a God) he/she will love me for the person I am weather I go to church or not. I will be rewarded for being my own person and not a follower.
There are way to many religions for any single one of them to be perfectly right. And for religion to cause so much chaos in this world just doesn’t seem to be consistent with the bible.
Just my $0.02, I am sure I could go on and on for hours. You just gave me a good jumping point to say a couple of things.
The biggest problem with churches, is they are filled with people; broken people. They are lead by people; broken people being watched. And the most public person, the pastor, needs to be able to realize they are probably just as broken as those that show up to the church. Worse is that they’re being attacked more and scrutinized more. It must be so tough to be in that position where doing something stupid or being a jerk can have so much more of an effect on people than years worth of sermons.
I understand where you’re coming from, I’ve almost left my church a few times, but then I realize that my Pastor is broken just like me. I don’t go there for him, I don’ go there for me, I go there for God. That’s why I’m still there.
I’ll pray for you Neal, for both His peace and forgiveness for you, and for desire to seek God Himself to grow and become more real than all the broken people (like me) who might stand in your way.
Peace,
-J
Neal, I understand your frustrations, but the fact is that there are plenty of good churches, focussed on Christ and his love for us sinners and on love for our fellow man. You need to be a part of a church like that. It is not good to try to go it alone.
Actually, it’s not even biblical to do so “Don’t forsake the assembling of yourselves together…”. That does not mean you suddenly lose your faith or entrance to heaven if you don’t go…it’s more about wise advice about how you need to be plugged into a good spiritual community. It’s also good to be under the guiding authority of a GOOD pastor/pastoral staff. You need to let the past be the past and find a way to move forward. I’m confident the right body of believers is out there for you to plug in, connect with, and receive blessing from.
Love in Christ,
Careyd
If there is one theme that is central to Christianity, it is forgiveness. If you wish to come to terms with the rock in your balloon, you have to forgive your former pastor. Forgive him for being the flawed human that we all are, and love him for what he may yet become in the light of Christ.
My wife is going through similar struggles with the church right now. She often asks me why the things we have gone through in the past few years have not made me bitter. My answer is simple. I have NEVER had faith in the church (whatever church it may be). My faith is in God. The church is not God. It is made up of humans, and humans have flaws. The problem with many churches is that they do not believe themselves to have any flaws. Many preachers seem to feel this way too. It seems they believe that since they have given their lives to the church, that their flaws have somehow disappeared. While it is true that many have given their lives to the church, very few have given their lives to God. The few that have will be the first to admit that they haves flaws and that they simply do the best they can.
)
I don’t believe that church is for everyone. I don’t believe that whether of not you go to church has anything to do with whether you will go to heaven. I don’t believe that any religion is completely right or completely wrong (sans a few who worship the wrong guy
Forgiveness is tough. Very tough in fact. No one can or should tell you that you just have to forgive. It can’t be forced.
Just remember, God made us all and he was perfectly aware of what he was creating. I don’t believe that he judges us as critically as some would have us believe. He loves you just as you are, inner struggles and all.
It is not God that is flawed. It is the church.
@ Filmboy
I am extremely sorry if I somehow offended you. Nothing in my reply was directed at you or any of the other people who commented. To be honest, I did not even read your comment prior to seeing your response. I was drawing from personal experience where I have been told I needed to forgive someone. I apologize if you or any of the other people here who commented thought anything I said was directed at them.
Tony, I asked Cali to remove my post. I had a difficult day at work, and I was probably overreacting. There are no hurt feelings here, honest.
@Filmboy
No problem. I appreciate the fact that you care enough about Neal to post some helpful information. No hard feelings here either. I hope your day tomorrow is better.
Because so many people have posted, I fell obligated to post what the pastor did. He didn’t approve of my relationship with Cali because she was in high school and I was in college. He tried to break us up. We didn’t know. Cali’s mom told us years after we had been married. I prayed for a girl to marry like Cali since I was 9 years old. The thought that he tried to wreak it kills me. It kills me because we worked together and he never saw my heart.
Have you ever talked to him about this?
@Neal
That’s messed up. I can completely understand your anger. Thank God he did not succeed.
You and your dark nights are in my prayers.
Tony
I’m sorry I haven’t taken the time to read this until now. Good words. I won’t go too far into this but to say that you have a difficult issue there to deal with.
I know within the religious context I am found there are some pretty strict social restrictions on dating and relationships. That I am single and was not wedded by graduation from undergrad is something difficult to handle. Depending upon the regional expression of the church I am found in, dating is restricted to only those who are within a few months plus or minus of my age. I am presumably about the same age as Luria which makes me somewhat of an awkward fit at church with my continuing singlehood.
If you are in town for New Media Expo, I’ll buy ya a drink perhaps.
Neal, I can’t find the verse, Lord knows I’ve tried. Here goes anyway. I thought in the Bible the idea was the we can never truly know the heart of another. That is why we are not supposed to judge one another. Only the Lord could truly know how you felt in your heart about Luria. Your pastor did not have the Lord’s vantage point in this. Likewise, I do not know what was motivating your pastor to behave the way he did.
Now a days, a 19 year old dating a 17 year old and getting to second base is grounds for a statutory rape charge and a lifetime as a registered sex offender. I don’t know what the laws were like in your state at that time, but your pastor may have been reacting to something like that or some other sense of what he learned as appropriate behavior. I hope he was not simply acting out of maliciousness.
I know it is easy for me to say, but I really think you should talk to him about this. Tell him the truth about how you feel. After all, the truth will set you free.
Hi, Neal - thanks for sharing what you did about your youth pastor. As a former one (been delivered!) - 99.9% of the time a situation like that would be bad for the youth group. 99.9% of the time, it wouldn’t work out, and the fallout socially and emotionally in a group could be really bad. Youth pastors tend to work towards a whole group dynamic, and when a relationship like that starts up, the first idea is to help it end before the damage. But that .1% that works like you and Cali - that doesn’t get celebrated enough. If you haven’t talked with him, maybe that’s a way to just clear the air. I bet he watched the podcast
to keep up with you guys.
Neal,
I am a self-declared ‘homeless Christian’ and also struggle with the church. It sounds like some reasons are similar but perhaps I have different reasons too. So I dont have any solutions for you.
But I have hope that one day I will be back. I just wanted to pass on a bit of that hope to yourself.
Hang in there.
I think anytime people go behind your back to do anything, especially messing with those you love most, is going to make you feel betrayed.
I find that often pastors tend to react and act on what they think is best without getting all the information. Sometimes it is because they think they know better, sometimes it is because they have little time to act and think they need to.
No matter what, he shouldn’t have gone behind your back. If you worked together, he should have gone directly to you to voice any concerns.
But what I feel lead to tell you is you don’t have to talk to him to forgive him. It’s about your heart and letting it go. Give it to God and let him free you from that burden. I wouldn’t even encourage you to seek the pastor out to talk to him until you are freed yourself. Honestly, I don’t really care about that guy, I care about you so I say this for your benefit. You will never know the heights your balloon will reach when you hand that stone over to God and give up your ‘right’ to hold on to it.
I’m praying for you both.
Oh, and I think there are thousands upon thousands who are glad you and Luria are together… because then there would be no Cali, or GeekBrief, or us Briefers!
God knew what he was doing.
-J
Neal.. thanks for sharing the offense that has caused you so much anguish.
It is the few times that you’ve posted links to your fav Christian artists & songs (even your history of singing beautifully for our Lord) that causes me to know beyond a doubt that you know Him; you know Truth.
So again I quote: “He is faithful to complete the work He began in you”
” He is the same yesterday, today and forever”
And “His mercies are new every morning”.
I love web 2.0 and our ability to minister through the “tubes”!
Thanks again for sharing so this Switching Granny can continue in prayer for you!
Jesus himself told us: “But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Spirit and truth encompasses both heart and head; both emotion and intellect.
I’ve followed some of the late night tweets and quietly prayed for you to find the fulfillment you seek. But I’ve also wondered if you might be pursuing only one side of the equation, that of spirit and emotion. Yet without the balance of truth and intellect that fulfillment is elusive or fleeting.
My encouragement would be to get into the Bible and soak up as much of God’s truth as you can. Let that truth be the measuring stick for what a church should be, what a pastor should be, and what worship should be. Then allow that truth to inform and shape the response of your spirit.
I had no idea there where so many great minded Christians that followed you guys. We left the church for a long time our selves after we moved away from our home town. After moving back our old church just wasn’t the same any more so we didn’t go there and the other church my family had attended when I was very young had a preacher that we just didn’t fit in with. He left and a new preacher came in that was great so we returned and since we’ve gone through several preachers all have been great. One though left very abruptly and I’m still dealing with that since we worked very close on several projects/ministries and I felt he left the job undone. We live in a small rural town in NW Oklahoma and our church has a normal attendance of around 150 each Sunday but the preacher preaches the Bible and although I don’t exactly agree with every member of the church they are a very loving family. We have had a great deal of turmoil in our lives and our church family have been such a blessing to us I don’t know how we could of gotten through it without them.
So many of the large churches in metropolitan areas seem to have lost their way but I’m certain that God has a church home for you as he did for us. I left a great, well paying, promising corporate job to return to my home town and work for myself. We didn’t exactly know why but it’s clear now that God had a plan for us and I’ve not regretted the move once. I wish you lived close enough to us that you could experience our church, maybe on your “Big Trip” you could stop by and let me share it with you or you could find one like it along your path. Please remember although a preacher has a great deal of influence on a church it’s Gods church not the preacher’s. If it’s the preacher’s church then it’s not Gods and you shouldn’t be going there.
You and Cali will be in my prayers.
Your Brother in Christ
Mike J.
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